About the EVDL: The Electric Vehicle Discussion List, founded in 1991 by EV enthusiast Clyde Visser, is an active and vital source of information and help for people involved with electric vehicles. Most of our participants are hobbyists who have built, or are building, their own EVs, usually (but not always) using conventional gasoline or diesel vehicles as "gliders."

According to the list's charter:

The EV (Electric Vehicle) Discussion Mailing List is intended to provide a forum to discuss the current state of the art and future direction of electric vehicles. It is not intended to discuss either EV appropriateness or comparisons with other transportation primary drive modes such as the venerable internal combustion engine. Those discussions are best relegated to the appropriate usenet newsgroup. An electric vehicle is any vehicle which uses an electric motor as the primary or sole motive force. The energy storage device used to drive said motor can use any technology including, but not limited to, solar electric, electric battery, fuel cell, internal combustion engine coupled with an electric generator (hybrids), or any combination of these. Production electric vehicles are currently available. Internal combustion engine vehicles can be converted to electric power. A number of companies perform this conversion. A number of manufacturers provide equipment and components allowing you to "do it yourself."

If you're thinking about purchasing an EV or building your own, you'll find hundreds of participants on this list who will be glad to provide guidance. Our members can be found literally round the world, from California to Australia.

One warning: this is a high traffic list! The number of messages typically runs 30-50 per day, and can reach 100 per day when we're discussing something controversial. If that's a problem for you, you might want to use Digest mode. See below for instructions.

Archives: There are several for the EV Discussion List. The offical one ("offical" means that, as list administrator, I operate it and try to keep it working) is the

EVDL Archive / Forum Interface

Gmane threaded archive

Yahoo Groups Digest Archive

How to subscribe: The easy way is to use the EVDL's web subscription page. If you prefer, you can subscribe by email. See below.

You can use almost any email address to subscribe. However, a warning -- there seems to be a bug in the list's software. If you use the mailname "lists" (for example, lists@bogosity.net) to subscribe, you may not be able to log in to the EVDL Configuration Page. I suggest you use something else. How about "mailinglists" instead?

• To subscribe on the web, view the EVDL Subscription Information Page and follow the instructions given there.

• If you prefer to use email only, send an email message to the list processor address:
  ev-request@lists.sjsu.edu

  Either the subject or the body of the message should contain:

  subscribe

  Don't include a signature or any other text in the message body. If your email client doesn't allow you to send a message without a subject or without a body, just repeat the command.

  The listserver will email you a confirmation message with instructions. You can either reply to the message, or use the web link in the message to confirm with your web browser.

  When you've confirmed your subscription request, the server will email you a welcome message. This message includes a password. Please keep a copy of the message so you have your password - you'll need it to change to digest, suspend emails for vacation, or unsubscribe. (If you lose your password, don't worry - you can have it emailed to you from the EVDL Configuration Page.)

How to post: To post a message to the list, email it to:

How to unsubscribe: (Please bookmark this page. That way you'll have some idea of what to do if you ever want to drop your EVDL subscription.)

To permanently stop receiving any mail from the EV discussion list, you can unsubscribe either on the web or by email.

• To unsubscribe on the web, visit the EVDL Configuration Page and follow the instructions given there.

• To unsubscribe by email (which is actually easier), compose a message to the list processor address :
  ev-request@lists.sjsu.edu

  Either the subject or the body of the message should say :

  unsubscribe

  The list processor will send you a confirmation email to make sure you really want to unsubscribe (this prevents other people from gratuitously unsubscribing you).

  Note: the unsubscribe command won't work if it's sent to the posting address. Also, you have to send it from the same email address you used when you signed up for the list. You can always change your email address or unsubscribe from the EVDL Configuration Page if you have your EVDL password.

Other commands: You can make the following changes to your subscription at the EVDL Configuration Page.

You'll need your password to make these changes. If you don't know it (which is pretty likely), just enter the email address you use for the EVDL (leave the password blank for now), scroll to the bottom of the page, and click the Remind button. You'll get your password by email in a few minutes. (Sometimes several minutes, if the listserver's having a rough day.)

• Unsubscribe.
• Change your Email Address.
• Change your password.
• Have your current password emailed to you. You didn't save that welcome message, eh? Tsk, tsk. ;-)
• Disable mail delivery temporarily. This is useful when you go on vacation, so you don't return to find 953 messages in your mailbox -- or when you just need a vacation from 100 or so EV-related messages every day.
• Set Digest mode. If you ask for digests instead of single messages, the listserver will treasure up messages until it decides it's collected enough, and then send them to you scrunched into a single message. This may help you manage the large number of messages the EVDL sends (as many as 100 per day - see above). You still have just as much to read, but it seems like less, since it comes to you in fewer packages. Seriously.

  Digest Mode may also lull you into posting some huge messages when you reply, but forget to delete the entire digest from the bottom of your message. (Thanks to Microsoft for making top-posting common by including this delightful "feature" in Outlook Express, and to everyone else who's copied it since.) Digest mode may also tempt you to post a message with a decidedly unhelpful subject similar to "Re: EV Digest, Vol 12, Issue 29." Either one of these netiquette faux pas may earn you some cranky responses from other EVDLers. Thou hast been warned. ;-)

• Request Plain text digests or MIME digests. The EVDL default is plain text. If your email client program understands what to do with MIME digests, you may prefer them as more readable. Go ahead, try MIME digests and see whether your client works with them, and whether you like them. You can always change back to plain text.
• Unset Echo mode. This determines whether you receive copies of your own messages that you send to the list. The default is on. I don't know why anyone would turn this off, but there it is if you want it.
• Set Acknowledge mode. If you turn this on, every time you post a message to the EVDL, the listserver will send you a message telling you that your message has been distributed. I guess this is in case you decide to turn off Echo mode, and then wonder whether anyone's listening. The default is off.
• Set Password Reminder. If you want, the EVDL can send you mildly annoying monthly reminders of your password and how to make changes. The default is off, by vote of the EVDL membership.
• Unset Avoid Duplicates. If this option is set, the list will try to avoid sending you extra copies of emails where your own address is included in the TO and/or CC field. Default is on.

Solving Common Problems: What to do when something goes wrong.

• Q: I can't subscribe. I get a message that says, "List EV is closed; no more subscriptions are accepted unless sent directly by the subscription manager."

  A: You're using the old EVDL subscription address and instructions. We left that server in August of 2007, but obsolete, incorrect instructions that direct you to it are still floating around on other (apparently orphaned) websites.

  Use these instructions instead.

• Q: I posted, but I didn't see my message.

  A: There are several possible causes for this problem.

  1. Do you see your post in the archive? Your message might be reaching everyone else but you. When this happens, the most common reason is that it's getting caught in your own spam filter. Check the filter and whitelist the EVDL address if necessary.

  2. Make sure you're using the correct address for posting --

  3. It takes time for a message to get through the server, anywhere from a few minutes to a few hours. The time depends on how heavily loaded the server is. Also, the EVDL uses the Milter Greylist. Milter sometimes delays posts for several hours, for reasons that only it knows. Give it 24 hours or so, and if you're still sure your message hasn't crossed the list, contact us by email for help.

  4. Are you receiving EVDL mail from others? If not, the server might be down. This happens now and then. It's usually back up by the next morning, with lots of posts asking, "Is the list down?"

  5. Are you sure that you're really subscribed to the EVDL? If you've just signed up, it's possible that your subscription didn't go through properly. Mail from nonsubscribers quietly vanishes without a trace. (We could program the list server to forward it to the list managers, but then we'd be up to our necks in spam.)

     If any of the following is true, you're probably not subscribed to the EVDL:

     1. When you subscribed, you didn't receive a confirmation message from the server.

     2. You didn't reply to the confirmation message (or didn't follow its directions).

     3. You replied, but you didn't receive the welcome message and your password.

     4. You got the welcome message, but It's been 24 hours and you haven't received any EVDL messages (normal traffic is 30 to 100 messages per day)

     Check your spam filter. Email from the list may be ending up there. (This is a pretty common problem.) Or, when you tried to subscribe, the confirmation or welcome message might have gotten snagged in the filter. If the confirmation message gets stuck there and expires before you can reply to it, you'll have to try subscribing all over again.

  6. It may seem obvious, but are you sending messages from the same email address that you subscribed with? Messages from addresses that aren't subscribed are silently dropped into the bit bucket, so you won't receive a rejection notice.

  7. Even if you're using the right mail account, your email address may have changed ever so slightly from what you used when you subscribed, just enough to confuse the listserver. For example, maybe you subscribed as janeb@blueberry.com, and that's the address you use -- but under the surface, your ISP (Internet Service Provider), troglodyte.net, actually has that server as an alias. When your mail goes out into the world, it's marked as being from janeb@blueberry.troglodyte.net. The EVDL's listserver doesn't know who that is, so it shrugs and dumps your mail into the bit bucket.

     The solution is to re-subscribe, using your "real" address.

  8. You might have posted something that made the server choke, and either reject or discard your message. (The difference is that if it rejects your message, it sends you mail telling you it's done so, but if it discards your message you won't hear a thing; the message just won't show up.)

     Some reasons that the server might either reject or discard your message:

     1. Too many email addresses in the TO field. On the theory that mail with lots of recipients might be spam, the EVDL listserver likes to have its address all by itself in the TO field. It will accept a couple of other addresses, but that's about all.

     2. No address in the TO field. A lot of bulk mail is sent out with all the addresses in the BCC field. The server does not want bulk mail. Ergo, if it doesn't find its own address in the TO field, it says "uh-uh."

     3. Your message is too long, over 40 kilobytes. That's a lot of typing! Actually, this error usually means one of the following:
        1. You replied to a digest, and left the entire digest on the end of your message. (This is the default behaviour for some very well known email programs and webmail services, I'm sorry to say.) To fix this, resend the message, this time deleting all the digest text except the specific item you're replying to.

        2. You sent a large binary attachment -- a 5 megapixel photo, for example. Instead, post your attachment somewhere on the web, such as on a file sharing service. Then resend the message, this time without the attachment, and with a link to the binary file.

        3. You copied and pasted a long web article. The solution: don't do that. Instead, send the list a message describing the article, and a link to it.

     4. The message has an unusual format that the server doesn't understand. The result can be a rejection notice that says "The message's content type was not explicitly allowed" or something else equally cryptic. Or, your messages might just never show up. We've even had a case where the messages appeared on the list -- totally blank!

        About all you can do is experiment with different email settings. If it's on plain text, set it for fancy mail. Or vice versa. If nothing works, you might have to just use a different mail system for the EVDL. See below for a few webmail suggestions.

  9. Maybe you accidentally turned off your Receive Your Own Posts option. Check your configuration page to see. Note: you need a password for the options page. See below to find out how to get it.

• Q: I asked a question, and it showed up on the list, but nobody answered.

  A: Make sure you've written your message so what you're asking is clear.

  Don't use a generic subject such as "EV Problem," say something specific -- for example, "Charger won't shut off."

  In the message body, ask the question clearly, and provide some background about your situation. At the very least, we usually need to know what kind of car, motor, controller and batteries you have. If you're asking about charging, also tell us what the charger is. You get the idea. But don't include too much extra or unnecessary information, such as personal details -- that just distracts from the question.

  If you're using the EVDL through the archive / forum interface, make sure you're really subscribed to the EVDL itself. The forum is a convenient "gateway" to the mailing list, for people who like web forums better than email. However, if you want our hundreds of email-only subscribers to see your messages, you have to also subscribe to the mailing list.

  If your post in the forum is marked "pending," that's what's wrong -- you're subscribed to the forum only, not the EVDL. Only the relatively few people using the forum are seeing your posts. To fix this problem, click here, then click the Subscribe button.

  Of course, it could also just be that nobody among our more than 1,700 subscribers knows the answer to your question!

• Q: I tried to post, but nothing showed up, and I got a message back from ev-bounces@lists.sjsu.edu saying "The message's content type was not explicitly allowed." Did I say something I shouldn't have? Am I banned from the EVDL?

  A: No, you're not banned, or anything of the sort. That's an error message from the server. It doesn't have anything to do with what you said in your message -- it's strictly a technical problem. It means that the listserver couldn't process your message for some reason. It might be an attachment it doesn't recognize, or some kind of unusual message format.

  You might want to send me a copy of your original message, and the server's response, so I can try to figure out what made it reject your message.

  Don't worry, it wasn't anything you said. ;-)

• Q: My email system isn't working well with the EVDL, and the IT guru here isn't happy about the amount of traffic from the list. Any recommendations?

  A: Here are the free (actually, ad-supported) services that EVDL members have reported experience with.

  1. Gmail (Google Mail) seems to be the current favorite. Over 330 EVDL members now subscribe via Gmail. Many of them like the threaded display of mail from the list. You no longer need an "invitation" to use Gmail.

     However, for some reason, Gmail filters out mailing lists' return of your own posts. It won't let you see your own words in (virtual) print. Apparently Google considers this a feature.

     Some people have privacy concerns about Gmail, mostly for the way its ad software looks at your mail and serves up ads related to it. Others find that the ads are occasionally entertaining.

  2. Yahoo used to be first choice, and it's still fairly popular. Over 200 of our current subscribers have yahoo.com addresses. In recent years the Yahoo folks have had some server overload problems causing missed messages, but this seems to have abated.

     Like Gmail (see above), Yahoo mail also now blocks mailings lists' return of your own posts.

     Yahoo mail also has some moderately obnoxious flash ads, but Firefox knows how to block most of them.

  3. Lycos was more widely used in the past, but has fallen out of favor among EVDLers in recent years. Lycos has recently (as of early 2010) redesigned their mail system. More information coming soon.

  4. I do NOT recommend Hotmail. It's given the EVDL listserver fits off and on for years. It seems to work best when emailing other Hotmail subscribers.

• Q: I unsubscribed, but I'm still getting mail.

  A: Here are a few possibilities and suggestions:

  1. Make sure you used the correct listserver address and command. Obsolete, incorrect instructions are still floating around on other websites that we don't control and can't change (and the webmasters either ignore or don't receive our mail asking them to fix it). Look here for the correct procedure.

  2. When you unsubscribe, you have to give the listserver the exact email address you used when you originally subscribed. If you subscribed as jimbo886@email.funnypapers.com, but your ISP changed your address format and now you're jimbo886@funnypapers.com, that may be why unsubscribing isn't working for you. As far as the listserver is concerned, those addresses are two different people.

  3. Did you include the word unsubscribe in your email to the listserver? Are you sure it didn't have any typographical errors? Very often the listserver will just ignore words that it doesn't recognize. One person recently tried to unsubscribe by typing "unscribe," for example.

  4. When you unsubscribe, the listserver emails a confirmation message to the address it has for you in its records. This is so that other people can't unsubscribe you without your knowledge. You aren't really unsubscribed until you reply to that message. If you unsubscribed but never got a confirmation message, check your spam filter. If it's not there, make sure you're following the unsubscription procedure to the letter.

  5. If unsubscribing by email isn't working for you, try the web method described here.

  6. Sometimes it takes a while for the unsubscription to get through the server's thick skull. Wait 24 hours or so and see what happens.

  7. If everything else fails, contact us for help.

• Q: I want to suspend my EVDL mail while I go on vacation, but the EVDL's Configuration Page wants a password. What password?!

  A: Your password was in your welcome message when you subscribed. You did save that message, yes? No? No worries, nobody else saves it either. ;-) It's OK; the listserver will send you a password reminder.

  1. Use your browser to open the EVDL Configuration Page.

  2. At the top of the page, enter the email address you use for the EVDL (leave the password blank for now).

  3. Scroll to the bottom of the page, and click the very last button on the page, the one which says Remind. A new page will open. At the very top it will say, "A reminder of your password has been emailed to you." Leave this page open in your browser.

  4. Check your email. Within a few minutes (OK, maybe several minutes) you should receive a message from the server containing your password. Highlight and copy the password.

  5. Back in your browser, paste (or type) the password into the Password blank on the web page. Click the Log In button right under that blank. You will be taken to your personal EVDL configuration page where you can suspend or resume your EVDL mail, among other changes and settings.

  6. When you're done making the changes you want, scroll all the way to the bottom of the personal configuration page and click the Submit My Changes button. Note -- if you don't click this button, none of your changes will actually take effect.

• Q: I got my password reminder from the listserver, but it doesn't work. What am I doing wrong?

  A: Make sure you're actually using the EVDL Configuration Page. If you're getting an error message that says "No registered user found for this email, please enter a correct email address and click Get Password," you're in the wrong place, trying to connect through the forum interface.

• Q: I received an email that says "Your membership in the mailing list EV has been disabled due to excessive bounces." What's the problem?

  A: This means that your mail system has been "bouncing" EVDL mail back to the listserver, telling the listserver that it can't deliver the mail to you. When this happens consistently, the listserver figures that something is wrong with your email.

  Every message the listserver sends out takes time for it to process, and every message that bounces takes even more time. The listserver is already slow enough, so it can't afford to waste time. Therefore, it shuts off your EVDL mail, and tries to contact you to see if you're still there.

  Every other day for a month, the EVDL listserver will email you a warning like the one you just received. If it hasn't heard back from you at the end of that time, it'll assume that you've probably abandoned your mail account, and will unsubscribe you.

  Why does your mail bounce back to the EVDL listserver? The most likely reason is that your mailbox is full. Of course, in that case you probably can't get the warnings that your subscription has been disabled, either! The EVDL listserver hopes that sometime during the month that it keeps trying, you'll delete some old messages and free up some space in your mailbox, so its warning can get through.

  It can also happen if your mail server is down for a long time. Also, once in a while, a mail server that's still working, but badly overloaded, will bounce so many messages that the EVDL listserver will think it's down.

  If you reply to the message that says your mail has been disabled, the EVDL listserver will restart your EVDL mail. Just make sure that whatever problem caused your mail to clog up in the first place has been fixed, or the same thing will just happen again in a few weeks.

List conventions: Mostly just a matter of good netiquette and civil behavior.

1. Be collegial and civil. Remember that our members come from all backgrounds and have many different reasons for interest in EVs. Not all are environmentalists, though many have at least some concerns in that area. They come from all over the political spectrum.
   1. Follow the Fidonet Principles:
      1. Thou shalt not be too annoying.
      
      
      2. Thou shalt not be too easily annoyed.
      
      
   2. Avoid off-topic subjects likely to cause flames, especially partisan politics and religion.
   
   
   3. Keep it clean. Remember that some people are offended by profanity, especially when it invokes the names of deities or drops the "F-bomb." If you just have to swear, why not be creative and make up some interesting new curses?
   
   
   4. Treat list members online as you'd treat them face to face.
   
   
   5. Argue your points with verifiable facts, not insults or abuse.
   
   
   6. If you post an opinion, don't forget to flag it with the standard "IMHO."
   
   
   7. If you're kidding, use an appropriate icon. ;-)
   
   
   While we discourage discussion of politics and environmentalism, sometimes these subjects are bound up closely with EVs and we just can't avoid them. Part of civility is the personal discipline that keeps the discussion cordial in those cases. This means holding your fire when someone's opinon angers you, and remaining tolerant of others who hold views you don't agree with.

   Some people think that being collegial and civil amounts to being excessively "politically correct." If you see it that way, then I'm sorry to say that either you'll have to be "PC," or you'll have to find somewhere else to discuss EVs.

2. Stay on Topic. Mildly off-topic posts are acceptable if flagged with "OT" in the subject line. Please use good judgement and stay close to EV-related subjects.
   1. Avoid posting about overunity devices, magnetic motors, free energy, perpetual motion machines, and anything else that appears to violate the laws of classical physics. Sorry, those subjects aren't appropriate for the EVDL. Try overunity.com instead. Electrifying Times also hosts some articles and discussions dealing with these subjects.
   
   
   2. This list is focused on EVs, not on the energy to run them. In particular, it's usually not a good idea to bring up nuclear power. Discussions of PV (solar) energy should be tightly framed in an EV context ("What's the most effective way to power my EV from the sun?").

      For general discussions of renewable energy, please subscribe to our sister list, Alternative Energy. To sign up, send an email message containing the words "subscribe ae your-first-name your-last-name" (without the quotation marks) to the address listproc@listproc.sjsu.edu.

   
   
   3. Questions and comments about ICE vehicles (internal combustion engine powered) are not appropriate for the EVDL.
   
   
   4. Some list members don't consider the commercial hybrid vehicles, such as those from Toyota and Honda, to be EVs. These vehicles derive 100% of their energy from liquid fuel. They're well covered in other forums and mailing lists on the net anyway. Discussion of these vehicles is discouraged. However, conversion of these vehicles to partial or 100% plug-in operation is definitely on topic.
   
   
   5. Please note the following statement from the list's charter: "[The EVDL] is not intended to discuss either EV appropriateness or comparisons with other transportation primary drive modes such as the venerable internal combustion engine." This means that we're not here to debate whether EVs are generally practical or desireable or useful. However, none of us is so Pollyana-ish as to believe that an EV is practical or desirable or useful for absolutely every person. You're always welcome to ask the EVDL for help deciding whether an EV will work for your own transportation needs.
   
   
   6. The charter notwithstanding, years ago EVDL members decided that discussion of fuel cell vehicles and hydrogen power should be held to a minimum.
   
   
   7. The EVDL is not a general purpose bulletin board. Don't forward or quote email which you've received from others, unless you're sure it's on topic and you know it was specifically intended for the EVDL (such as when an unplugged EVDL member asks you to forward something to the list). This means that internet chain letters, virus warnings, urban legends, political or religious tracts (no matter how urgent), inspirational or humorous stories (no matter how moving or hilarious), and the like are all unwelcome on the EVDL. Your questions and comments about electric vehicles, however, are welcome.
   
   
   8. The subject of whether the EVDL should convert from a mailing list to a web forum has been exhaustively discussed in the past. The consensus is that the members are satisfied with the current format. Please see the archives for more information. Bringing up this subject yet again may result in some less than polite rejoinders, and is not recommended. If you want an EV forum, why not try our forum interface instead?
   
   


3. Announce, don't advertise. Reputable vendors and manufacturers of EV-related gear provide a useful service to EVDL members. If you're one, you're most welcome on the EVDL. However, we ask you to follow these guidelines:
   1. No advertising, please. Announce and discuss your products and services only in factual, value-neutral, non-promotional terms. Save the glowing descriptions for your own website.

   2. No unprompted mentions, please. Bring your products and services up only when an existing conversation (thread) makes the discussion appropriate and natural.

   3. Support users of your products and services on the EVDL.

   4. To the best of your ability, also participate in general EV help and support unrelated to your products and services.



4. Post in plain ASCII text. Please, no HTML or "rich text." The listserver will filter your post if you use HTML. However, that makes it work harder, which slows down its mail delivery. Make it happy. Send plain text. (Note: Lycos Mail is an exception. Lycos has a bug in its plain text function, and the EVDL server can't process it properly. If you use Lycos, you will have to set it for "rich text" mail.)


5. Don't send binary attachments to the list. If you have something to share, please post it on a free, open, public website and email the list the URL. File sharing services such as Yousendit and Mediafire work nicely for this purpose.

   For photos, please choose a photo sharing service which doesn't require that viewers subscribe or register (even if registration is free). Most photo services require that the person uploading the photos register. A few allow both image viewing and uploading without registration. Need some suggestions? Wikipedia offers a list of photo sharing services.

   Another option is to use the EVDL archive / forum interface. It allows you to upload files to its separate server, and automatically includes a link in the message sent to the list. Note though that you can't post through the forum front end until you've registered for it. That registration is separate from (and in addition to) your EVDL subscription.



6. Trim quoted text. Don't repeat the entire message to which you're replying. Be especially careful of this if you're receiving the digest. The server traps messages quoting entire digests, and they may be blocked or rejected.


7. Be original. Your own material is far more valuable than anything you find elsewhere. Not only is copy and paste a pretty feeble substitute for creativity, it also risks copyright violation.


8. Guard your rights. Information you post on the EVDL may be used for FAQs and other resources available to the public. Posting material on the EVDL is equivalent to releasing it into the public domain. If you want to retain ownership or copyright, please don't post your writing on the EVDL.


9. Be circumspect. The EVDL is archived in several public places, most of which are not under our control. Once you give the "Send" command to your email program, your words are writ large for all to see on the web forever. If you wouldn't want a relative, friend, rival, [ex-] employer, [ex-] spouse, or [ex-] partner to see what you wrote, don't send it!

   The EVDL's administrators don't monitor posts for content. You are solely responsible for what you write. I am not an attorney and this is not legal advice. However, if you're writing something which in some jurisdictions might be considered libelous, slanderous, or otherwise might expose you to liability, I suggest that you consult your attorney before sending the message.

Moderation: We like a free exchange of ideas, so the EVDL is usually unmoderated. Fortunately, our members are pretty good about following the list conventions.

However, we also like civility (a nice old fashioned word). Experience has shown us that the lack of it often leads to flame wars. Flame wars drown out rational discussion of EVs and lead reasonable people to unsubscribe. These are not good things.

Most lists and forums on the web simply ban users who don't follow the rules. We've been known to do that too, and will again when we think it's warranted. (Over the years we've gotten a pretty good sense for which users are receptive to being asked to play nice and which aren't.)

For cases where we don't think a kick in the bum is necessary or appropriate, we might set a user's or a thread's moderation flag.

1. Definition: Normally the listserver distributes your message as soon as it gets round to it. This can be anywhere from a few minutes to several hours, depending on how loaded the server is and whether it gets some bizarre notion that you might be a spammer (it runs the Milter Greylist).

   A message that's moderated has to wait a little longer still, so that one of the list administrators can look it over. If he or she approves it, your message gets distributed. In most cases, though not all, this shouldn't take much longer than the Milter Greylist delay.

   If the admin decides that your message is flame bait, rude, or inappropriate for some other reason, then he or she will send it back to you for editing with a brief explanation of why, and how you can fix it. If you don't manage to comply with the conventions with a rewrite, your message will vanish into the ozone. (We used to allow two rewrites, but we found that folks who couldn't be civil on the second try generally couldn't on the third, either.) We may or may not notify you that this has happened.

2. Thread Moderation: We might moderate a topic that's become a flame war. In rare cases, we might even moderate one which we think might be headed that way. Every message in that thread will then have to be approved by a list administrator before it's distributed to the other members. If you write a rational, civil, levelheaded message, it'll be approved as soon as possible. If you write a flame bait post, you'll get the above second chance to write something a bit cooler to replace it, before it goes to the list.

3. User Moderation: If it seems as if you often have trouble following the conventions, we may moderate all of your posts. Everything you write will then have to be approved by a list administrator before it's distributed to the other members.

4. Duration: Moderation doesn't last forever. It's too much hassle for us, for one thing. If you get put on the moderation list, when your posts go back to being collegial and civil, you'll go back to being unmoderated. If your posts never get civil, most likely we'll eventually just ask you to leave.

5. Rationale: We never moderate or ban users to keep them from expressing opinions, or because we disagree with them. That kind of behaviour is for tyrants and other disgusting people. We moderate and ban only when we have to, and only to keep the tone of the discussion reasonably civil and collegial. We think we have a pretty fair policy, even though the judgement of the list administrators is involved. (How could it not be?)

   However, we know that moderation of mailing lists, usenet groups, and forums is controversial. Some people consider it censorship. We're sorry if you see it that way. We don't. We're not the government. The EVDL is not a communication medium.

   The internet, however, is a medium -- a big one. There's lots of room for more EV mailing lists and forums. If you don't like our policies, there are others you can try. Some will be more restrictive, some less.

   If you don't like any of them, by all means start your own. There are several free and ad-supported forum and/or mailing list services (your favorite search engine is your friend). Even if you decide to lease a server, many virtual hosting plans are available for a few dollars a month.